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The following dissertation is the result of research done by Mr. Warren Menteith to whom we are grateful for granting us permission for its use.

1. BIRTH. PARENTS. BIRTH PLACE
   
   • The wedding certificate (1900) states he was 38 years old, and born in Perth, Scotland. His parents are given as Edin Hoyland Menteith, master mariner, and Sara Woodreeves.
   • In his WW1 records he states he was born in Perth, Scotland. His birth date is consistent as June 18, but the year varies. I think it can be safely assumed he was born on June 18, 1862. Exhaustive searches by many members of the family can find no record him or his purported family under this name.
   • Varying legends have Ian leaving home, assuming a false name, arriving in Australia, and reverting to his real name.
   • As no records can be found of him or his family, my suspicion is that Ian Menteith is the assumed name.
   •  So what was the real name? John Smith is untraceable. There must be 1000’s in the time frame.
   • Annie called him Jack. The memorial at Woy Woy is to a J E Menteith. It is noted on his WW1 records that he signed J Menteith, not I Menteith. Also remember john/ian/edin/juan are all the same name.
   • On the wedding certificate, each space for the bridegroom’s name has a Christian name crossed out, and overwritten with Ian. The crossed out name is Johnny.
   • What about the Hoyland? Any register of Scottish names will tell you it is not Scots. Similarly a search of the parish records for the island of Hoy, shows no Hoylands, or for that matter Menteiths.
   • Could he have been named John Hoyland? Could his father/stepfather be John Hoyland?
   • A search on John Hoyland, married to a Sarah uncovered a John Hoyland, b. 1843 in Baslow, UK. He married a Sara (details unknown) in July 1870. They had a son, John, registered in August 1870. No further of the son is recorded. Legitimising the illegitimate?
   • There was also a John Hoyland who married Sarah Wraggs in Sheffield in 1865. No details of children have yet been found.
   • The only Hoyland – Scotland connection I found was in the 1861 Edinbrough Census. An English traveller by the name of Hoyland (1861, IEM 1862?), was staying there over night.
     
2. MILITARY CAREER
   
   1. WORLD WAR 1
      • Ian’s WW1 history is contained in his war service records.
      • A thumbnail sketch – applied for active service 1916, rejected amongst other things on age. Accepted into the ‘home guard’.
      • Applied and accepted into the AN & MEF (private) in 1918 for garrison duty in New Guinea.
      • Spent 10 months there, then repatriated to Australia suffering from malaria.
      • More specific details are available for those who don’t have a copy.
      • It is claimed in the obituary that in 1915 he enlisted in the 3^rd Battalion. This is not so.
        
   2. OTHER MILITARY SERVICE

      From his WW1 service record, Ian makes the following claims:

      1916 attestation form:  ‘16 years Scottish Rifles. N.S.W.’

      1918 attestation form:   ‘Scottish Rifles (NSW & Q)         3 yrs

                                           Victorian Rifles                            4 yrs   

                                           73^rd Reg.       S.Africa                 7 yrs

                                           Bakers L.H.        “                       15mo

                                           Ralstons “           “                       4   “

                                             ………..”

      Note the discrepancy in the rifle units between the two forms, and that no claim to overseas service is made in the 1916 record.
      

      1. 73^rd Regiment.

         Service with the 73^rd Regiment in South Africa is not possible, as regimental records show that the 73^rd was at no stage involved in South Africa. Could he have served elsewhere with them?  This is doubtful for two main reasons:
         

         • Their areas of involvement were the Indian subcontinent and Hong Kong. He makes no claim to service in either, nor does family ‘history’ include these locations.
         • He claims seven years service. The 73^rd ceased to exist in 1881 when it was reunited with the 42^nd. To have served seven years, he would have to have enlisted in 1874, i.e., 12 years old.
           
      2. Ralstons Light Horse

          I can find no evidence of any unit, regular or irregular, of this name in any South African actions.
         

      3. Bakers Light Horse.

         In 1879, a column was formed to attack a Zulu stronghold at Hlobane (pronounced Shlobahnee). Amongst the troops assembled were 80 men of the Cape Colony Volunteers under the name of Bakers Light Horse. As yet I have been unable to find their names, nor has any other reference to Bakers Light Horse been discovered.

         The battle at Hlobane took place on 28 March 1879. It was a glorious defeat. 5 VC’s and 5 DCM’s were awarded. Ian or any known pseudonym was not amongst the recipients. (See appendix 1.)
         

      4. New South Wales and Queensland Scottish Rifles.

         Ian makes no claim to overseas service with these units. Neither served overseas. At this stage I have been unable to obtain regimental lists.
         

      5. Victorian Rifles.

         Several contingents of the Victorian Rifles did go to the Boer War. The first leaving in October 1899 and arriving in South Africa in November 1899.

         It should again be noted Ian claimed no overseas service with this outfit.
         

   3. MILITARY CLAIMS IN THE OBITUARY

      Whilst serving with the 42^nd Regiment he fought with, and was decorated at Rorkes Drift. Family ‘history’ had him under the name John Smith.

      No personnel from the 42^nd were there. (NB. Ian claimed no service with the 42^nd.)

      A Private John Smith from the 2/24^th was present. Examination of his service record shows that this could not have been Ian.

      All those decorated for the Rorkes Drift action can be subsequently traced. None could have been Ian.
      

   4. CLAIMS OF DECORATIONS

      Ian was awarded the DSM. This is not possible. At the time in question the British Army had only 2 gallantry awards – the Victoria Cross and the Distinguished Conduct Medal. Allowing for DSM/DCM confusion, as stated a list of DCM recipients is attached. Those at Rorkes Drift have been eliminated, as can Sgt. Major Learda and Sgt. Kambula. They were native troops. This leaves a list of 8 to be followed up. It should be noted that none of these belonged to units in which Ian claimed enlistment. It is also claimed Ian was mentioned in despatches. Without a name/unit/action this is almost impossible to trace.

      It is also claimed that in 1884, Ian left for the Boer War with the Queensland Scottish Regiment. The Boer War did not start until 1899, and the regiment saw no overseas service. No Australian colonial units, regular or irregular, participated in any earlier British/Boer conflicts.

      There are many excellent databases covering the Zulu Wars and the British/Boer conflicts. Ian Edin Hoyland Menteith or any combination of the names does not appear.

       

3. ARRIVAL IN AUSTRALIA

   Ian supposedly arrived in Australia on the Quetta. Varying stories of false names/jumping ship etc. abound. Searches of the following have not given any indication he was on board any Quetta voyage, or arrived in Australia under any known name.
   

   • Passenger and crew lists from the Quetta.
   • Ships absconders and deserters lists from 1880 – 1900.
   • Immigration records for all states for the appropriate period.
   • Lists of assisted migrants for the same period.

    Again, unless we know the name, searching is difficult.
   

4. AUSTRALIA PRIOR TO MEETING AND MARRYING ANNIE

   All I have is ‘Ian Menteith, smelter, of Woolwich’ from the wedding certificate.

   He appears on no electoral rolls, census, etc. This is the one area of family ‘history’ for which there seems no tale. Who did he work for? What was his address? How did he meet Annie?  A Scots traveller living in Woolwich, marries a Jewish divorcee 16 years younger with 3 kids, from Redfern?  This alone is worth a chapter.
   

5. WORK

   On his wedding certificate, his occupation/residence is given as smelter/Woolwich. The Sydney Smelting Co. had a tin smelting operation at Woolwich from 1892 until 1965 when it moved to Alexandria. It is no longer in operation, and no employee records exist.

   Dad, (David Menteith) recalls the name Hoskins. Hoskins Foundry operated at Rhodes from the 1880’s until 1927, when it moved to Lithgow and Port Kembla. It was subsequently taken over by Australian Iron and Steel, and finally BHP. No employee records exist.

   Given the ‘no ticket, no job’ union attitude of the times, I contacted the ACTU for possible union membership records, which led through amalgamations to the AWU and AMWU. No archival material is available prior to 1915.

   His enlistment papers in 1916 and 1918 give his occupation as ‘engine driver’. A safe assumption is that this would be with NSW Government Railways. Personnel records (original documents) are stored at the NSW Archive at 143 O’Connell St, Kingswood NSW. These can be searched provided the employee was born before 1900, and employed after 1910. The Rail, Tram and Bus Union have searched for any relevant archival material. The AFULE was the applicable union. Membership details go back to ticket no. 1. Ian is not amongst members.

    

Warren Menteith - September 2002 

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Appendix 1.

Distinguished Conduct Medal: Zulu Wars South Africa.

Rorkes Drift 22-23 January 1879

2469 Cpl. Attwood, Francis. A.S.C.

2459 C. Sgt. Bourne, Frank. 2/24 Reg.

2076 Gnr. Cantwell, John. Royal Artillery

3359 2 Cpl. McMahon, Michael. Army Hospital Corps

1542 Pte. Roy, William. 1/24 Reg.

Hlobane Mountain 28 March 1879

Cpl. Vinnicombe, William d. Frontier Light Horse

Bde. Pte. Walkinshaw, A. 90^th Light Infantry

Kambula 29 March 1879

Tp. Sgt. Maj. Learda. Natal Native Horse

1197 Pte. Page, Albert. 13^th. Foot

1689 Cpt. Quigley, Edward, 11/7 Bde. Royal Artillery

Umfolozi River 3 July 1879

Sgt. Kambula, Simeon. Natal Native Horse

Ulundi 4 July 1879

238 Gnr. Moorhead, William. 10/7 Bde. Royal Artillery

1196 C/Sgt. Phillips, James. 2^nd Batt. Northampton Reg.

499 Pte. Power, John. 1/24 Reg.

Zululand 1879

Tpr. Brown, R Frontier Light Horse.

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Editor: M. L. Monteith
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Last modified: November 11, 2003